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	<title>Comments on: To filter or not to filter&#8230;..this is not the real issue in this debate&#8230;</title>
	<link>http://blogs.educationau.edu.au/gputland/2008/01/04/to-filter-or-not-to-filterthis-is-not-the-real-issue-in-this-debate/</link>
	<description>Exploring the interaction between learning and technology</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Mike Seyfang</title>
		<link>http://blogs.educationau.edu.au/gputland/2008/01/04/to-filter-or-not-to-filterthis-is-not-the-real-issue-in-this-debate/#comment-40447</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.educationau.edu.au/gputland/2008/01/04/to-filter-or-not-to-filterthis-is-not-the-real-issue-in-this-debate/#comment-40447</guid>
					<description>Garry,
I would like to propose the following as a draft for your quarterly newsletter column on this issue:

The topic of internet filtering is as important as it is complex, never failing to spark debate when public announcements are made.  Take, for example, the Minister for broadband announcing policy that would require Internet Service Providers (ISP’s) to provide ‘clean’ (or filtered) internet feeds to public places.  Sounds like a great idea on the surface, particularly in the light of important child safety strategies.  Not so, scream the free speech advocates, technical boffins and early adopters of social networking in education.  The reaction to Minister Conroy’s new years eve announcement by bloggers was quite extraordinary ranging from ‘it can’t possibly work’ to ‘it will be the end of the internet and free speech as we know it’. Simon hackett from Internet Service Provider Internode suggests the notion of ISPs being required to provide clean internet feeds will sink without a trace within 12 months’ saying ‘we’ve considered that a half-dozen times before.  It seems to come up around election time and then disappear again.

Somewhere between the extremes lies a subtle but important element of this debate – there seems to be very little understanding of and absolutely no accountability for the detrimental effects of accidentally blocking social networking sites that are good for education.  There is a complex subtlety and balance required to think about internet filtering in a way that will provide some benefits with a minimum of detrimental side effects.  Let’s hope we can have some rational debate about that before the next election.


QUOTE: simon hackett internode suggests the notion of ISPs being required to provide clean internet feeds will sink without a trace within 12 months’ saying ‘we’ve considered that a half-dozen times before.  It seems to come up around election time and then disappear again.  Client end controls are moderately effective but trying to do it all in the middle of an ISP network is madness’ – The Australian, Tuesday Feb 19, 2008.

Fang - Mike Seyfang</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garry,<br />
I would like to propose the following as a draft for your quarterly newsletter column on this issue:</p>
<p>The topic of internet filtering is as important as it is complex, never failing to spark debate when public announcements are made.  Take, for example, the Minister for broadband announcing policy that would require Internet Service Providers (ISP’s) to provide ‘clean’ (or filtered) internet feeds to public places.  Sounds like a great idea on the surface, particularly in the light of important child safety strategies.  Not so, scream the free speech advocates, technical boffins and early adopters of social networking in education.  The reaction to Minister Conroy’s new years eve announcement by bloggers was quite extraordinary ranging from ‘it can’t possibly work’ to ‘it will be the end of the internet and free speech as we know it’. Simon hackett from Internet Service Provider Internode suggests the notion of ISPs being required to provide clean internet feeds will sink without a trace within 12 months’ saying ‘we’ve considered that a half-dozen times before.  It seems to come up around election time and then disappear again.</p>
<p>Somewhere between the extremes lies a subtle but important element of this debate – there seems to be very little understanding of and absolutely no accountability for the detrimental effects of accidentally blocking social networking sites that are good for education.  There is a complex subtlety and balance required to think about internet filtering in a way that will provide some benefits with a minimum of detrimental side effects.  Let’s hope we can have some rational debate about that before the next election.</p>
<p>QUOTE: simon hackett internode suggests the notion of ISPs being required to provide clean internet feeds will sink without a trace within 12 months’ saying ‘we’ve considered that a half-dozen times before.  It seems to come up around election time and then disappear again.  Client end controls are moderately effective but trying to do it all in the middle of an ISP network is madness’ – The Australian, Tuesday Feb 19, 2008.</p>
<p>Fang - Mike Seyfang
</p>
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		<title>by: simonfj</title>
		<link>http://blogs.educationau.edu.au/gputland/2008/01/04/to-filter-or-not-to-filterthis-is-not-the-real-issue-in-this-debate/#comment-37200</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.educationau.edu.au/gputland/2008/01/04/to-filter-or-not-to-filterthis-is-not-the-real-issue-in-this-debate/#comment-37200</guid>
					<description>You know Garry,

I'm not sure how long it might take before the remnants of the nanny state's attitudes will be made clear as 'irrelevant'. Probably as long as it's taken to vote out the last group of ministers.

As you say, this discussion is not about filters. As a wise Mike makes clear, it's about responsibility. The great pity is that a minister (or teacher) can't say,  "I can do (only a) little about this, it's up to parents", just as it is with so many things.  

I tend to monitor the convergence of oldies concerns about their kids watching a 'clean feed', and their kids finding ways to investigate the things they're not supposed to be interested in. One point of convergence is in attitudes based around the two screens. The last numbers I read were that about 30% of kids bringing their laptops to the TV room (at times) in attempts at not having to watch the same crap as their parents, or to interest them in something different (OK, weird). 

Not sure how many teaching parents return the compliment, but judging by edu.au's institutional attempts at broadening their community over the years, and (co)producing riveting content, I'd say very, very few.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know Garry,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how long it might take before the remnants of the nanny state&#8217;s attitudes will be made clear as &#8216;irrelevant&#8217;. Probably as long as it&#8217;s taken to vote out the last group of ministers.</p>
<p>As you say, this discussion is not about filters. As a wise Mike makes clear, it&#8217;s about responsibility. The great pity is that a minister (or teacher) can&#8217;t say,  &#8220;I can do (only a) little about this, it&#8217;s up to parents&#8221;, just as it is with so many things.  </p>
<p>I tend to monitor the convergence of oldies concerns about their kids watching a &#8216;clean feed&#8217;, and their kids finding ways to investigate the things they&#8217;re not supposed to be interested in. One point of convergence is in attitudes based around the two screens. The last numbers I read were that about 30% of kids bringing their laptops to the TV room (at times) in attempts at not having to watch the same crap as their parents, or to interest them in something different (OK, weird). </p>
<p>Not sure how many teaching parents return the compliment, but judging by edu.au&#8217;s institutional attempts at broadening their community over the years, and (co)producing riveting content, I&#8217;d say very, very few.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tech-Ed Collisions &#187; on filtering</title>
		<link>http://blogs.educationau.edu.au/gputland/2008/01/04/to-filter-or-not-to-filterthis-is-not-the-real-issue-in-this-debate/#comment-35015</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.educationau.edu.au/gputland/2008/01/04/to-filter-or-not-to-filterthis-is-not-the-real-issue-in-this-debate/#comment-35015</guid>
					<description>[...] An opportunity to visit BETT recently enabled me to take a look at a number of approaches to Internet safety. This was particularly good timing in relation to the recent announcement from Senator Conroy to establish filtering for all Australian Internet users in order to protect a (very important) sub-set of Australian Internet users. Firstly, the protection of our children is paramount. In my own case, safety of our kids at school was probably more important than potential academic performance when we started looking at schooling options for them. However, when it comes to Internet safety I am not sure that a sledgehammer approach to filtering the entire country is the best way forward. We have seen before and we will see again how easy it is for those who want to, to bypass filtering. To me, the Internet is just too dynamic to pin our hopes on such a coarse solution. Our language and the context in the way concepts are presented make filtering incredibly difficult. Here&#8217;s an interesting article on Crikey showing at a simple level, just how difficult it is. Putting a wall around something to protect it is a medieval solution and I hope we live in more enlightened times. If you believe walls are a good protection measure then placing them closer to the assets you are trying to protect seems to make more sense than building a wall far away. Most, if not all of the filtering solutions that I looked at were local solutions ie at the school level rather than the country level. Local solutions potentially give teachers more opportunity to intervene when the inevitable breach occurs. While filtering will no doubt play an important role in this area, it does not come close to protecting students from all potential harm via the Internet. For example, it does not stop things such as cyber-bullying, predatory behaviour in online messaging/communications services, or simply wandering &#8216;off-task&#8217; and accessing content that is not harmful, but not subject related. Clearly other approaches need to be implemented to address these problems. There are some interesting technical solutions appearing which start to address these areas by capturing what is on the screens in realtime and allowing intervention as and when the incidents occur. Still, this only starts to address the problem by allowing teachers to intervene straight away and take appropriate action. More important still though is educating our students and giving them the ability to protect themselves from harm. In the &#8216;real&#8217; world, we don&#8217;t protect them simply by shutting the rest of the world off from them, but give them the skills they need to survive and thrive safely in that world. So it should be in the &#8216;online&#8217; world. Fenced off societies do not seem to work - think of any that you know of and ask yourself if they are really looking after the interests of their citizens in the best way. At the very least, we should have the right to opt into that environment than opt out of it - that may appease the civil libertarian concerns a bit. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] An opportunity to visit BETT recently enabled me to take a look at a number of approaches to Internet safety. This was particularly good timing in relation to the recent announcement from Senator Conroy to establish filtering for all Australian Internet users in order to protect a (very important) sub-set of Australian Internet users. Firstly, the protection of our children is paramount. In my own case, safety of our kids at school was probably more important than potential academic performance when we started looking at schooling options for them. However, when it comes to Internet safety I am not sure that a sledgehammer approach to filtering the entire country is the best way forward. We have seen before and we will see again how easy it is for those who want to, to bypass filtering. To me, the Internet is just too dynamic to pin our hopes on such a coarse solution. Our language and the context in the way concepts are presented make filtering incredibly difficult. Here&#8217;s an interesting article on Crikey showing at a simple level, just how difficult it is. Putting a wall around something to protect it is a medieval solution and I hope we live in more enlightened times. If you believe walls are a good protection measure then placing them closer to the assets you are trying to protect seems to make more sense than building a wall far away. Most, if not all of the filtering solutions that I looked at were local solutions ie at the school level rather than the country level. Local solutions potentially give teachers more opportunity to intervene when the inevitable breach occurs. While filtering will no doubt play an important role in this area, it does not come close to protecting students from all potential harm via the Internet. For example, it does not stop things such as cyber-bullying, predatory behaviour in online messaging/communications services, or simply wandering &#8216;off-task&#8217; and accessing content that is not harmful, but not subject related. Clearly other approaches need to be implemented to address these problems. There are some interesting technical solutions appearing which start to address these areas by capturing what is on the screens in realtime and allowing intervention as and when the incidents occur. Still, this only starts to address the problem by allowing teachers to intervene straight away and take appropriate action. More important still though is educating our students and giving them the ability to protect themselves from harm. In the &#8216;real&#8217; world, we don&#8217;t protect them simply by shutting the rest of the world off from them, but give them the skills they need to survive and thrive safely in that world. So it should be in the &#8216;online&#8217; world. Fenced off societies do not seem to work - think of any that you know of and ask yourself if they are really looking after the interests of their citizens in the best way. At the very least, we should have the right to opt into that environment than opt out of it - that may appease the civil libertarian concerns a bit. [&#8230;]
</p>
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		<title>by: Peter Ruwoldt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.educationau.edu.au/gputland/2008/01/04/to-filter-or-not-to-filterthis-is-not-the-real-issue-in-this-debate/#comment-33791</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.educationau.edu.au/gputland/2008/01/04/to-filter-or-not-to-filterthis-is-not-the-real-issue-in-this-debate/#comment-33791</guid>
					<description>What if we were to use an anaology of learning to cross the road when talking about filtering.

Roads are a very dangerous place. You can get killed crossing the road if you are not experienced at it and that is why lower primary teachers have very rigid structures when taking students out of the school. They bring along more adults, train the students to walk around holding hands and so on.

As students get older, they have more experience with using the road and so by the end of secondary school students can be trusted to negotiate roads on their own.

We need to educate about the internet in a similiar way.

Wara</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if we were to use an anaology of learning to cross the road when talking about filtering.</p>
<p>Roads are a very dangerous place. You can get killed crossing the road if you are not experienced at it and that is why lower primary teachers have very rigid structures when taking students out of the school. They bring along more adults, train the students to walk around holding hands and so on.</p>
<p>As students get older, they have more experience with using the road and so by the end of secondary school students can be trusted to negotiate roads on their own.</p>
<p>We need to educate about the internet in a similiar way.</p>
<p>Wara
</p>
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		<title>by: Peter Ruwoldt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.educationau.edu.au/gputland/2008/01/04/to-filter-or-not-to-filterthis-is-not-the-real-issue-in-this-debate/#comment-33789</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.educationau.edu.au/gputland/2008/01/04/to-filter-or-not-to-filterthis-is-not-the-real-issue-in-this-debate/#comment-33789</guid>
					<description>SMART and SAFE.
Good comment Fang
The 9 minute TED Talk video called '5 dangerous things you should let your kids do" is worth watching.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/202

While not talking about filtering the presenter is talking about providing real and useful learning opportunities for young people.  He is presenting risk to youth but his real message is about safety.

My feelings on this filtering topic are documented at http://waraku.blogspot.com/2007/04/internet-filtering-system-broken.html

I want a better filtering system for schools that

    * respects the different needs of children as they grow and develop
    * promotes values of respect and trust
    * facilitates unencumbered learning
    * is respectful of the work of teachers

So what if we had a filtering system that

    * a teacher could turn on and off for a student for periods of time (ATM it is only administrators that can do this)
    * had various levels of filtering from very strong to none
    * where students could be assigned a level for filtered access that was consistent with their percieved trustworthiness and maturity
    * where this level was reviewed on an annual basis involving teachers, parents and students
    * displayed all access logs for all members of the school community to all members of that community
    * where community action was taken where people breached our expectations for appropriate conduct

Wara</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SMART and SAFE.<br />
Good comment Fang<br />
The 9 minute TED Talk video called &#8216;5 dangerous things you should let your kids do&#8221; is worth watching.<br />
<a href='http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/202' rel='nofollow'>http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/202</a></p>
<p>While not talking about filtering the presenter is talking about providing real and useful learning opportunities for young people.  He is presenting risk to youth but his real message is about safety.</p>
<p>My feelings on this filtering topic are documented at <a href='http://waraku.blogspot.com/2007/04/internet-filtering-system-broken.html' rel='nofollow'>http://waraku.blogspot.com/2007/04/internet-filtering-system-broken.html</a></p>
<p>I want a better filtering system for schools that</p>
<p>    * respects the different needs of children as they grow and develop<br />
    * promotes values of respect and trust<br />
    * facilitates unencumbered learning<br />
    * is respectful of the work of teachers</p>
<p>So what if we had a filtering system that</p>
<p>    * a teacher could turn on and off for a student for periods of time (ATM it is only administrators that can do this)<br />
    * had various levels of filtering from very strong to none<br />
    * where students could be assigned a level for filtered access that was consistent with their percieved trustworthiness and maturity<br />
    * where this level was reviewed on an annual basis involving teachers, parents and students<br />
    * displayed all access logs for all members of the school community to all members of that community<br />
    * where community action was taken where people breached our expectations for appropriate conduct</p>
<p>Wara
</p>
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		<title>by: Mike Seyfang</title>
		<link>http://blogs.educationau.edu.au/gputland/2008/01/04/to-filter-or-not-to-filterthis-is-not-the-real-issue-in-this-debate/#comment-33516</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 03:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.educationau.edu.au/gputland/2008/01/04/to-filter-or-not-to-filterthis-is-not-the-real-issue-in-this-debate/#comment-33516</guid>
					<description>Filters can be great - the trouble starts when we expect (or worse, demand) too much from them.  We both live in Adelaide and thanks to filters we can now drink our tap water!  I am grateful that google automagically does some spam filtering on my gmail.  The Akismet wordpress plugin saves me lots of time in getting rid of unwanted comments to my blog.

I want my kids to be both SMART and SAFE - and I accept responsibility for making sure there are good filters BETWEEN THEIR EARS.  My wife tends to me more concerned with SAFETY, I like to push the SMART side of the equation, that's the tension we live with to achieve balance.

It is a shame that there is no real political pressure or accountability for the consequences of what you describe as 'filter the good stuff as well'.  That the Minister responsible for broadband can make outrageous demands for 'clean feeds' while the Minister responsible for education says nothing about how dumb that would be for education is a real shame.  Doubtless both are more concerned about the impact of the press sensationalising rare cases of children accidentally accessing violent or pornographic material while at school than the much more insidious evil of missed learning opportunity because 'the good stuff' is filtered as well.

I have had quite a response to my quick post about filtering on new years eve.  I will try to synthesize a considered response in a future post of my own, but till then here are some responses I wish to acknowledge:

- Tom Wood (one of the smart kids you mention) for a lengthly post from which I borrowed the 'filter between the ears' idea.

- Nick Hodge for some very positive suggestions on ways forward.

- acidlabs and bl1ink for their summaries of blogosphere revulsion.

Fang - Mike Seyfang</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Filters can be great - the trouble starts when we expect (or worse, demand) too much from them.  We both live in Adelaide and thanks to filters we can now drink our tap water!  I am grateful that google automagically does some spam filtering on my gmail.  The Akismet wordpress plugin saves me lots of time in getting rid of unwanted comments to my blog.</p>
<p>I want my kids to be both SMART and SAFE - and I accept responsibility for making sure there are good filters BETWEEN THEIR EARS.  My wife tends to me more concerned with SAFETY, I like to push the SMART side of the equation, that&#8217;s the tension we live with to achieve balance.</p>
<p>It is a shame that there is no real political pressure or accountability for the consequences of what you describe as &#8216;filter the good stuff as well&#8217;.  That the Minister responsible for broadband can make outrageous demands for &#8216;clean feeds&#8217; while the Minister responsible for education says nothing about how dumb that would be for education is a real shame.  Doubtless both are more concerned about the impact of the press sensationalising rare cases of children accidentally accessing violent or pornographic material while at school than the much more insidious evil of missed learning opportunity because &#8216;the good stuff&#8217; is filtered as well.</p>
<p>I have had quite a response to my quick post about filtering on new years eve.  I will try to synthesize a considered response in a future post of my own, but till then here are some responses I wish to acknowledge:</p>
<p>- Tom Wood (one of the smart kids you mention) for a lengthly post from which I borrowed the &#8216;filter between the ears&#8217; idea.</p>
<p>- Nick Hodge for some very positive suggestions on ways forward.</p>
<p>- acidlabs and bl1ink for their summaries of blogosphere revulsion.</p>
<p>Fang - Mike Seyfang
</p>
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